<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Eberron: Artificer Scrolls</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.gamecrafters.net/archives/19/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.gamecrafters.net/archives/19</link>
	<description>Advice on making your game great.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 18 Jan 2012 22:31:48 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://www.gamecrafters.net/archives/19/comment-page-1#comment-43956</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 23:16:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1#comment-43956</guid>
		<description>Wow, two comments on one post in the same day.  Unheard of!  Both very good points.

Karen: I think you&#039;re spot-on there.  Does this infusion make the artificer/wizard combo more attractive?  Yes.  Does that break the game?  Probably not.  It&#039;s not like it&#039;s free.

Ashley: I can certainly see where you&#039;re coming from, but I just want to point out one thing: a wizard can only make scrolls of spells he knows how to cast; that is, spells that are already in his spellbook.  An artificer can make scrolls of any spell, period.  If a wizard goes into a store to buy a scroll for a new spell, one he doesn&#039;t know yet, is the assumption that it was created by another wizard, or by a sorcerer?  I thought artificers were the ones that created all the magic items.

Thanks very much for your comments; they are always appreciated.

Brian</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, two comments on one post in the same day.  Unheard of!  Both very good points.</p>
<p>Karen: I think you&#8217;re spot-on there.  Does this infusion make the artificer/wizard combo more attractive?  Yes.  Does that break the game?  Probably not.  It&#8217;s not like it&#8217;s free.</p>
<p>Ashley: I can certainly see where you&#8217;re coming from, but I just want to point out one thing: a wizard can only make scrolls of spells he knows how to cast; that is, spells that are already in his spellbook.  An artificer can make scrolls of any spell, period.  If a wizard goes into a store to buy a scroll for a new spell, one he doesn&#8217;t know yet, is the assumption that it was created by another wizard, or by a sorcerer?  I thought artificers were the ones that created all the magic items.</p>
<p>Thanks very much for your comments; they are always appreciated.</p>
<p>Brian</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ashley</title>
		<link>http://www.gamecrafters.net/archives/19/comment-page-1#comment-43953</link>
		<dc:creator>Ashley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 16:53:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1#comment-43953</guid>
		<description>I want to devil&#039;s advocate for a second here.

If most people making magic items are artificers, and most people using them are bards, rogues, adventuring artificers and maybe sorcerers, then why doesn&#039;t this make sense?  I mean, Wizards can make their own scrolls.  They get that feat at first level.  So wizards buy Wizard scrolls - I mean, who else would understand their arcane scribbles anyway?

As for clerics - what cleric buys scrolls from a shop?  They get them from the church of their god.  Cause... does it even make sense that a cleric could cast a divine scroll of another god?  Wouldn&#039;t a Soverign Host cleric have trouble casting a scroll with Silver Flame scripture all over it?  Or Blood of Vol undead loony ramblings?  Anyway, point is, a cleric is probably going to buy scrolls created by clerics of their church.  The same goes for druids... and tree bark or whatever druids make scrolls on.

So that leaves artificers, bards, rogues, and sorcerers using the scrolls that are typically for sale.  And everyone but the sorcerers is used to using Use Magic Device skill to cast off of scrolls anyway.  All four classes have a high charisma score, or should if they want to be using one-shot magic items.  So it shouldn&#039;t be a problem for any of them to use artificer scrolls with use magic device checks.

Now, maybe I&#039;d house rule that artificer scrolls are easier to use with the use magic device skill than normal scrolls, cause that&#039;s how they&#039;re meant to be used in the first place.  But otherwise, it should work fine.  And makes sense because the people good at using scrolls this way are the people most likely to buy scrolls from artificers.

So, from a comerce point of view, it all makes perfect sense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I want to devil&#8217;s advocate for a second here.</p>
<p>If most people making magic items are artificers, and most people using them are bards, rogues, adventuring artificers and maybe sorcerers, then why doesn&#8217;t this make sense?  I mean, Wizards can make their own scrolls.  They get that feat at first level.  So wizards buy Wizard scrolls &#8211; I mean, who else would understand their arcane scribbles anyway?</p>
<p>As for clerics &#8211; what cleric buys scrolls from a shop?  They get them from the church of their god.  Cause&#8230; does it even make sense that a cleric could cast a divine scroll of another god?  Wouldn&#8217;t a Soverign Host cleric have trouble casting a scroll with Silver Flame scripture all over it?  Or Blood of Vol undead loony ramblings?  Anyway, point is, a cleric is probably going to buy scrolls created by clerics of their church.  The same goes for druids&#8230; and tree bark or whatever druids make scrolls on.</p>
<p>So that leaves artificers, bards, rogues, and sorcerers using the scrolls that are typically for sale.  And everyone but the sorcerers is used to using Use Magic Device skill to cast off of scrolls anyway.  All four classes have a high charisma score, or should if they want to be using one-shot magic items.  So it shouldn&#8217;t be a problem for any of them to use artificer scrolls with use magic device checks.</p>
<p>Now, maybe I&#8217;d house rule that artificer scrolls are easier to use with the use magic device skill than normal scrolls, cause that&#8217;s how they&#8217;re meant to be used in the first place.  But otherwise, it should work fine.  And makes sense because the people good at using scrolls this way are the people most likely to buy scrolls from artificers.</p>
<p>So, from a comerce point of view, it all makes perfect sense.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Karen</title>
		<link>http://www.gamecrafters.net/archives/19/comment-page-1#comment-43952</link>
		<dc:creator>Karen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 16:37:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1#comment-43952</guid>
		<description>First of all, how is it &quot;power gaming&quot; for a Wizard and Artificer to work together?  The Artificer still has to PAY, in gold and XP (or Craft Reserve) for the scrolls he makes.  He&#039;s not likely to do that out of the kindness of his heart.  So the Wizard would probably have to cover those expenses (the gold at the very least).

And anyway, that only increases the spells in the Wizard&#039;s spell book (which is insanely low in the first place - I never play a Wizard without that &quot;Academy Wizard&quot; feat that doubles his free spellbook spells per level).  It doesn&#039;t give the Wizard any additional spells per day (unless he uses the scrolls that way rather than adding them to his book).  All it does is increase the Wizard&#039;s versatility... which is supposed to be the point of the class.  If a Wizard can&#039;t be versatile, the player might as well be a Sorcerer and have the increased spells per day.  And, sure, sometimes it&#039;s nice to make the Wizard work for a really interesting spell... but only once in a while, otherwise it gets old really fast.  The more mundane stuff should be easier to get.

So yeah, I think that the &quot;artificer wizard power game&quot; rationalle for that rule is innane.  It pointlessly punishes spellcasters and makes no economical sense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First of all, how is it &#8220;power gaming&#8221; for a Wizard and Artificer to work together?  The Artificer still has to PAY, in gold and XP (or Craft Reserve) for the scrolls he makes.  He&#8217;s not likely to do that out of the kindness of his heart.  So the Wizard would probably have to cover those expenses (the gold at the very least).</p>
<p>And anyway, that only increases the spells in the Wizard&#8217;s spell book (which is insanely low in the first place &#8211; I never play a Wizard without that &#8220;Academy Wizard&#8221; feat that doubles his free spellbook spells per level).  It doesn&#8217;t give the Wizard any additional spells per day (unless he uses the scrolls that way rather than adding them to his book).  All it does is increase the Wizard&#8217;s versatility&#8230; which is supposed to be the point of the class.  If a Wizard can&#8217;t be versatile, the player might as well be a Sorcerer and have the increased spells per day.  And, sure, sometimes it&#8217;s nice to make the Wizard work for a really interesting spell&#8230; but only once in a while, otherwise it gets old really fast.  The more mundane stuff should be easier to get.</p>
<p>So yeah, I think that the &#8220;artificer wizard power game&#8221; rationalle for that rule is innane.  It pointlessly punishes spellcasters and makes no economical sense.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://www.gamecrafters.net/archives/19/comment-page-1#comment-21673</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2007 23:38:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1#comment-21673</guid>
		<description>And if people want to power game, is that wrong?  My problem with the way artificer scrolls work currently is that, thematically, they aren&#039;t that useful.  Ostensibly, artificers create most of the magic items in Eberron, but if that&#039;s the case, it would mean that most of the scrolls that you can buy from shops are neither arcane nor divine.  This means that most scrolls are of little value to arcane and divine casters, meaning further that artificers are effectively creating scrolls for other artificers, and for people who have ranks in Use Magic Device.  It makes no sense from a thematic perspective.  Now, as to the balance issue, your argument assumes that, when given this ability, players will run roughshod over game balance and seek to simply make their characters as powerful as possible.  I have an issue with this rationale, primarily because I believe that, when you design your system specifically with the abusive players in mind, you&#039;re doing a disservice to the people who don&#039;t even want to play that way.  And like I said before, if some players want to game the system, does that mean that they&#039;re playing the wrong way?  

And really, if you still see a problem, take into account the fact that this infusion 1.) uses up an infusion slot, 2.) takes an hour to cast (or an action point), and 3.) includes a costly material component equal to 10 x caster level x spell level.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And if people want to power game, is that wrong?  My problem with the way artificer scrolls work currently is that, thematically, they aren&#8217;t that useful.  Ostensibly, artificers create most of the magic items in Eberron, but if that&#8217;s the case, it would mean that most of the scrolls that you can buy from shops are neither arcane nor divine.  This means that most scrolls are of little value to arcane and divine casters, meaning further that artificers are effectively creating scrolls for other artificers, and for people who have ranks in Use Magic Device.  It makes no sense from a thematic perspective.  Now, as to the balance issue, your argument assumes that, when given this ability, players will run roughshod over game balance and seek to simply make their characters as powerful as possible.  I have an issue with this rationale, primarily because I believe that, when you design your system specifically with the abusive players in mind, you&#8217;re doing a disservice to the people who don&#8217;t even want to play that way.  And like I said before, if some players want to game the system, does that mean that they&#8217;re playing the wrong way?  </p>
<p>And really, if you still see a problem, take into account the fact that this infusion 1.) uses up an infusion slot, 2.) takes an hour to cast (or an action point), and 3.) includes a costly material component equal to 10 x caster level x spell level.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: William</title>
		<link>http://www.gamecrafters.net/archives/19/comment-page-1#comment-21649</link>
		<dc:creator>William</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2007 16:07:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1#comment-21649</guid>
		<description>What you missed is the reasoning behind the change.  An artificer can create /any/ scroll through the appropriate use magic device checks.  When paired up with a wizard in the party, that can essentially put every arcane spell in the game in that wizard&#039;s spellbook.  The errata restriction was put into place to prevent this kind of blatant power gaming.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What you missed is the reasoning behind the change.  An artificer can create /any/ scroll through the appropriate use magic device checks.  When paired up with a wizard in the party, that can essentially put every arcane spell in the game in that wizard&#8217;s spellbook.  The errata restriction was put into place to prevent this kind of blatant power gaming.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

